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[Kopfdorfer]

Hi Guys,

(Duplicate to a post I made on M4T - hoping to touch as many possibilities as I can )

This is a bit of a project , and I need help.
I am looking for visual reference materiel on the Bf109Gs flown by
Hans-Joachim Birkner when he flew with JG52 as wingman to such
Experten as Erich Hartmann and Gunther Rall.
Even if visually specific information is not available ( I have found it
difficult to find much from the usual "easy" sources on the internet) ,
I would be happy for a best guess "what if" skin from one of the veteran skinners who are adept at 109 Skinning - I find the German pattern of paint mottling challenges my meager skills.
If a skin is not available , what would the markings of Birkner's aircraft likely be ?
Hartmann flew as Yellow 1. Would Birkner simply be another
Yellow Number in an aircraft painted similarly to Hartmann's ?
This request may end up needing to be a best guess by an experienced skinner.
Anyone have any info ?
Anyone interested in making a what if skin ?

Thanks for any interest.

Kopfdorfer

[larschance]

I have checked my library and so far found.

Ltn H J Brinkner crashed due to engine failure after taking off from Krakau airfield on 14th December 1944. He was flying Bf109G14 Wnr 510531 on a transfer flight and was injured in the crash. He had 117 claims by that date.

I cannot find any photographs of his aircraft yet, not even in the JG52 histories. I will keep looking.

[Wolfosito]

So, I'm guessing from this page that Birkner is white number 2, although Hartmann is white 1 according to this, at least at the same time as Birkner
Some of the images of white 2s list the aircraft as Herbert Meissler's though so idk


It's probably best that you take a look at it yourself, quite a bunch of nice photos and reference
https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/JG52.html

[Mick]

... his 109 was nicknamed "Charlotte" ...

https://www.bildarchiv-ostpreussen.de/cgi-bin/bildarchiv/suche/show_foto.cgi?lang=deutsch&id=87399&showmenu=1&bildinfos=1

[Kopfdorfer]

Yes Mick,

I have a copy of this photo.
I am looking for a skin for the 1943 period , so likely a G-2 to G-6
Something like this one :

or this one


I don't read German , so I don't have access to any official German document records , or bios that might incidentally make reference to
what Birkner's aircraft might have looked like or been marked like.

I am hoping one of the 109 Hounds on this site might have something in their libraries.

Kopfdorfer

[Knochenlutscher]

You're 10 years too late my friend.
I started researching my ancestor's whereabouts in 9./JG52 in 2007/2008.
Around 2010/2012 I completed my research, citing most sources.
When they were online.
According to that, I was able to make a small Skinpack of Aircraft he flew.

The base for my research builded a detailed Lagestandsmeldungen Log/war Diary.
Not the truncated JG52 society one, the original. It housed Mission per Mission, with Werkenummern and Personell,
locasition indexes given precisely.

Snippets of that Source you find around the Bessarabian Campaign, or on 12oClock High, as that parts
has been preserved in web online. The rest, 90% is gone.

It was located on different sites, one site was french and housing it as late as 2010.
This site doesn't pop up in my Google search now, so we can assume it's gone.

[Kopfdorfer]

Did you ever make the skinpack available , Knoch ?
I'd be interested in any of the info that you still have , if you are willing to share.

Kopfdorfer

[Knochenlutscher]

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,65165.0.html

strictly G-6 early and G-6 late

when Bubi was StaKa, grounded, then Birkner StaKa as for timeline (Roman/Bessarabia and later)

9./JG52 are Kites that appeared in my ancestors Logs,
a few I found pictorial evidence, but seems to indicate early and late G-6 differences.
White+~ are 7th Staffel impressed flown by 9th on a day of shortage, those where
2 Missions my ancestor flew as Birkners Wingman.

There's a slight chance Birkner flew one of them on occassion,
i.e. one of the depicted yellow 12 was used by the Unit as the
show up Rotte during a PK/Film team visit. I forgot the other Aces names who
flew that kite that day, famous names, can't tell.

[Kopfdorfer]

Geeze I already downloaded that pack - must have missed the read me.
Thanks again - not just for providing the downloads , but for doing the pack itself.
It may not seem like it but every bit of research done , even in the name of a game ,
contributes to what is remembered historically , and that is important.

Kopfdorfer

[Knochenlutscher]

Will post an update for this Skinpack soon, some additional
late war Booty and obscure stuff I made since.

Here is the Kite allegedly Wilhem Batz flew for the Wochenschau

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=60070.0

I call this the 2nd Yellow 12, as one reknown Yellow 12 my ancestor crashed was an early G-6
from it's Werkenummer.

[Kopfdorfer]

Interesting and Thank You

Kopfdorfer