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Author Topic: Amiot-143  (Read 1978 times)

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HaFu1939

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Re: Amiot-143
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2023, 06:27:56 PM »

The Croatian use of Amiot 143 in WWII is mentioned in: Frka, D., Novak, J., & Pogačić, S. (1998). Zrakoplovstvo Nezavisne države hrvatske 1941.-1945. Zagreb: Krila, p. 348, in 1941 with registration number 1701; the same information in: Likso, T., & Canak, D. (1998). Hrvatsko ratno zrakoplovstvo u drugome svjetskom ratu  = the Croatian Air Force in the Second World War. Zagreb: Nova Dradiska, p. 78.
Best regards,
HaFu1939
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Dreamk

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Re: Amiot-143
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2023, 04:01:24 AM »

The story of the Croatian Amiot 143 is as follow:

The Amiot143M plane was flown by a Czech crew serving with the Armee de l'Air since occupation Czechoslovakia in 1939. They flew from France on 18 June 1940 and landed in Zagreb and two days later went on to Belgrade. The crew then left for North Africa and the Amiot was flown to Kraljevo.
The flight was not scheduled as a regular combat mission. This particular aircraft was used by Czech personell of GB I/21 for evacuation from Agen airbase near Bordeaux only. The aircraft was offered personally by Gen. Joseph Vuillemin, who was present at the airfield in that time.
The crew intended to fly to England but due to flak damage from previous service and some controls malfunction crew changed the flight direction to Yugoslavia. The crew (Sgt. Otakar Zanta, Sgt. Jan Irving, Sgt. Alois Keda, Sgt. Ladislav Malovec) were interned till December 1940 than escaped and via Greece evacuated to Turkey and later to England where they have joined RAF. Since they were missing for six months the whole crew was awarded Czech Medal for Bravery in memoriam in October 1940 by Czech authorities.
P/O Otakar Zanta (169918) was captain of 311 Sqn Liberator GR MkVI, BZ995/G, "J" when reported missing from antisubmarine patrol on March 13, 1944. Previously he was credited with sinking of U966 on November 10, 1943.
Sgt Alois Keda (788087) was killed on April 6, 1942, in accident of Wellington Ic, P9299, KX-A of 1429. COTF which crashed during cross coutry training flight probably due to engine malfunction.
J. Irving and L. Malovec survived the war.
The Amiot 143 M was then taken to Kraljevo. An official commision was sent from Belgrade to Kraljevo to examine Bronzavia radio set on the "X Plane". While the RYAF was deciding if to refurbish it for para-duties or to scrap it (it was in awfull state) Yugoslavia was overrun. Germans sold it to Croatia, where it had a serial 1701 and short and uneventfull career, being damaged at the end of 1941 when one of its landing legs collapsed. It eventually ended as an decoy at Rajlovac, where allied fighters "practiced" live firing on it on many occassions in summer 1944.


In the book Frka, Danijel, Josip Novak and Siniša Pogačić. La Force Aérienne Croate 1941 – 1945. Collection Histoire de L’Aviation Nº 10. Outreau (France): Editions Lela Presse:
p.35 shows 8th Sqdn./3d Bomber Group (8. Jato/3. Skupina) with CA. 310s, Bristol Blenheim Is and a single Amiot 143M) at Sarajevo-Rajlovac throughout 1942. The commander of 8th Sqdn. during all of 1942 was Satnik (Capt.) Ibrahim Sijerčić.
p.297 states that it was an Amiot 143M, Croatian series number 1701 (1 = Bomber, 7 = Amiot, 01 = number in the series and shows that there was only one of these in possession of the CAF). This number was painted in large black letters on the side of the fuselage between the cockpit and the tail (p.51).

According to Lela Presse book on the Amiot 143M no photos presently exist of this bird in RYAF service, however it is mentioned that the original chocolate livery was changed to the standard RYAF three tone finish on the upper surfaces similar to the Do.Y'sThe plane carried on its rudder the designation AMIOT 143 Br. 3241 in latin on the right side and in the cyrillic alphabet on the left side. In Croatian service the plane received national insignias, new code 1701 and retained three tone upper finish.

The arguments invoked against its existence are as follow:

1) The unit from which Czech crew defected was equipped with Amiot 351 and 354 bombers, some of them camouflaged and some left in bare metal.
This argument does not invalide the presence of a single Amiot 143M for services duty - it was in fact a regular practice in Armee de l'air unit to have different service aircraft in addition to the fighting aircraft equipping the squadron.
2) This type of aircraft had sufficient range to be able to reach Zagreb airport where it landed, while Amiot 143 could not do that
This argument is wrong  - the range of the Amiot143 was 1300km meaning it could reach 2600km in a no-return flight. Moreover teh distance between Marseille for instance and Zagreb is only 1250km
3) When the aircraft reached Zagreb, a young pilot was in the air making his training flight in Rogozarski PVT. This man was future post-war Yugoslav Air Force general Rendulic. In his memoires he recalls that a beautiful all-silver twin-engined aircraft popped out of the cloud and almost collided with him. A number of years after ww2, when showed some photos, he pointed at Amiot 351 as the aircraft he saw.
This argument is undecisive as the overall silver Ikarus Orkan prototype could be easily confused for the Amiot 351.
4) there is a report that citizens and passengers present on that day on the Borongaj airfield in Zagreb witnessed landing of modern sleek and beautiful shiny all-silver French bomber on the airfield.
Here too, same as in 3) this argument is undecisive as the overall silver Ikarus Orkan prototype could be easily confused for the Amiot 351. The ikarus Orkan was completed in April 1940 and began its test flights in May 1940.

Conclusion:
The presence of a single Amiot 143 in Yugoslavia, then in Croatia is quite possible and even probable.                                 
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HaFu1939

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Re: Amiot-143
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2023, 08:09:53 AM »

Dreamk, many thanks for the story of the Croatian Amiot 143. I was confused assuming the Amiot 143 was sold to Croatia with other captured aircraft (primarily Czechoslovak Fokker F.VIIb/3m and Fokker F.XVIII). This sale was realized in 1942 but sources on Croatian Amiot 143 mention 1941. I understand now. The story itself is extremely interesting for me because involving Czechoslovak crew. Czech Internet sources repeatedly write about an Amiot 351 in this context. Thanks once more, best regards
HaFu1939
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Yaro59

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Re: Amiot-143
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2023, 11:16:23 PM »

 Thank you all very much for your quite detailed messages about this aircraft.
Yes, gentlemen your knowledge would certainly help to make the skins closer to reality.
Huge respect for your knowledge, regards.  ]thumright[
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