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[Wing Walker]

Anyone know what the differences are with these ammo's?

If you select the "P-47D", "P-47D-27", or the "P-47D-22"

You can select what ammo to use, the default is:
"default"  and " *default"

default ammunition = 50k

*default ammunition = M2

Later models do not have the option, only the M2 ammo.

I don't know if this is a problem with just the "tracers" or the "bullets"...

The 50k shoot like normal squiggly pink tracers, synchronized alternating 1 left and 1 right firing.

The M2 fires off all 8 50's at a rate of fire like the German mk108 30mm's.  Or at least tracers shoot out 8 at a time, like one burst of all 8 guns.  Also the M2 tracers are fat and light yellow rather than the red/pink.

With the slow rate of the M2 its like trying to hit in one shot, rather than peppering the target with rounds, at least that is the way it looks with the tracers.  It seems as slow as a mk108

With the 50k you have a constant stream of fire to spray, or "buzz through" the target with.

Did P-47's actually sync all 8 guns to fire at once?  Seems plausible but its harder to land a hit with the 1 shot of 8.

[SAS~Storebror]

.50s are unsyncec, however that doesn't change the fact that any group of guns is initially starting the bullet stream simultaneously when you squeeze the trigger, they only get out of sync during a burst progressively.

[Wing Walker]

Just was testing this...

There is actually something wrong with the modelling for the M2 ammunition...

Maybe this should be in tech help forum?


The M2  50cals for the P-47D are actually firing all 8 guns in one volley.

Tried it out by just shooting into the water...

All the rounds from both wings fire at the same time and hit the water at the same time in 2 big synchronized splashes.

The plane still waves back and forth like the wings are shooting off one at a time from side to side.  If it is shooting in single volleys of 8 then there should be no side to side waving while firing.

The fire from the wing barrels are in a constant blaze like all 8 barrels are firing at a high rate, not in single slow fire bursts it is.

[TTC Redfield]

Hello Wing Walker,

Perhaps this topic can provide you with some answers on ossilation :

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=70327.0

The fact that  the tail fin is missing means that the plane lacks yaw stability, when firing the effect is more pronounced

[WxTech]

In the weapon class for the gun the tracer interval is specified. If one gun has, say, every 4th round set as a tracer and another gun has every 2nd round as a tracer, the latter is going to look rather more impressive.

Another oddity. I've found that if a round on the belting has  power value of zero, it may not create a hit effect. In my own re-jigging of gun classes I've assigned at least a small non-zero value so as to have a hit effect.

Indeed, of late I've spent much time on better rationalizing the way bullets (including up to the biggest ships' guns) are handled. There are two methods which interact in what I consider to be a weird manner, of which I could write a small book. Not that I'm an expert, and I'm sure to be mistaken in some area or another. But my approach has rectified a number of strange behaviors. For one thing, formerly it was the case that larger gun shells generated just a small hit effect, essentially invisible. Now big shells make a more suitably impactful hit.

I'd like to see some expert eyes give this whole matter some scrutiny, as I feel it's a very worthwhile area in which to rationalize and streamline what could be legacy quirks resulting from the ongoing bolting on of new functionality as the game evolved in its early years.

But alas, this is something for which requisite enthusiasm might only have been engendered a decade ago. Our modding community is now but a shadow of its former prodigious extent.

[WxTech]

Looking at my B.A.T. 4.0 STOCK MGunBrowning50s.class (upon which many child classes are based), I see that a belting sequence of 4 rounds is defined. One of the 4 has a red tracer, and 2 of the 4 has power = 0.0. This will be a thin tracer stream, and half the impacts might not generate a hit effect.

MGunBrowning50APIT:
4 rounds, 1 red tracer, all 4 have power > 0.0. Same thin tracer stream, but potentially more impressive hits.

MGunBrowning50kAPIT extends MGunBrowning50APIT:
Based on the previous, but has one pink tracer.

MGunBrowning50MIX:
Belting defined as 5 rounds. 1 red tracer. 2 of the 5 have power = 0.0. A somewhat thinner tracer stream, and some missing hit effects.

MGunBrowning50NT:
Belt of 4. No tracers (hence the "NT" in the class name). All have power > 0.0. Invisible stream, all possible hit effects.

[TTC Redfield]

Thanks you for these informations, I always wondered what the difference was between these machine guns

So that would explain why we don't see a flash on impact ?

[WxTech]

Yes. As soon as I started to delve into Java a few years ago and looked into weapons, it struck me as odd that some number of bullets/cannon shells should be assigned power values of zero. Long before that I was mystified as to why an accurate stream of MG17 rounds would have several in a group which passed into the target without visible effect. The class indeed showed something like 5 consecutive rounds in the sequence with zero power.

My effects pack has all B.A.T 4.0 MGun classes fixed in this regard and others.

There are a host of issues which a small consortium of modders could get to grips with and incorporate into a subsequent game version as part of the SFS archive.

[SAS~Storebror]

Why would a pure AP 50s round, or a "ball" 30s one, create a flash?
"I'm asking for a friend".


Mike

[WxTech]

But not even a smoke puff is generated, nor at least the water impact ring.

In any event, all manner of bullets that are not incendiary will generate hit flashes already. If there was a decent degree of global uniformity we could be justified in applying more stringent criteria.

As I noted previously, there is a vast realm of work waiting to do to further refine the existing game. But the main interests mostly lean toward adding yet more new stuff because it's more exciting than dealing with the old. 😉

[TTC Redfield]

Mike is not completely wrong about the fact that an Armor Piercing bullet does not flash in the video below (3 min 37) it does not flash but a little smoke :

1-
2-

But in this video we see fine drops of molten metal



The type of material impacted by the Ball has an influence on the visual rendering

In addition, I think that we should add more significant impact flashes for other types of API bullets, Tracers, etc.

[SAS~Storebror]

The type of material impacted by the Ball has an influence on the visual rendering

Sure, the plate they were shooting at in this case was made of titanium, which absorbed a whole lot more energy from the bullet, hence more energy gets converted to head, hence the molten metal drops.
Not that many WW2 aircraft you hit will feature titanium skin though

In addition, I think that we should add more significant impact flashes for other types of API bullets, Tracers, etc.

Totally agree, anything else than pure AP rounds should cause quite significant hit/tracer effects, much more than what we see ingame currently IMHO.


Mike