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[Dimlee]

BAT 4.2.2
JTW

I'm testing F-16 in the anti-shipping role with AGM65. There are no big issues as long as I launch missiles myself.
But AI wingmen refuse to shoot.
Orders "Attack ground - attack ships" and "Attack my target" (using the padlock) have been tried. AI confirms the order but does not follow it.
So far, AGM65 D and F were tested.
The same wingmen do drop bombs on ships when ordered.

Does anyone have a positive experience of NATO's guided missile attacks against ships by AI?

By the way, this "AGM tutorial" by enry711 is very helpful:
https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,65573.msg719085.html#msg719085

[Wing Walker]

I have had nothing but bad experiences trying to make missions in JTW, and with JTW in general.

The Jets simply will not engage enemy with missiles alone a lot of the time.

My first experience in JTW was a ship strike mission where Bear bombers were going after the Nimitz, they wouldn't attack the Nimitz launching their missiles, they just flew by.

Another missions I tried to make is a simple pure missile jet vs a Mig.  You can't do that, the fighters won't engage air to air unless they have a gun, and even then they don't know how to use the missiles and the "dogfighting" is they flying around seemingly aimlessly, maybe firing off 1 missile, despite an initial long head to head approach.

The AI isn't very good either, in simple dog fights with something like a Mig-15, the migs just climb endlessly to like 50,000ft and never seem to fight you.

Not to mention the terrible uncontrollably of the modern Jets where you can't stop the stick in one spot without it floating past your controls.

[Frankiek]

You should always bear in mind that il-2 was born as a WWII flight sim and is already a miracle that we have what we have

[Dimlee]

I agree with Frankiek.
I have no negative feelings for JTW or BAT in general and I am grateful for what we have.

Players have different experiences and there are many variables. It would take a lot of time to test and analyse the behaviour of guided weapons in all combinations: aircraft, weapon, target, speed, altitude, range, etc. If someone does it someday... I owe him/her a beer or more. 

So far, I observed this positive result of AGM vs ships by AI: Kh-29L by MiG-29K MiG-27K against stationary ships in the river and in the reservoir. Launched from an altitude below 1000 m and from a rather short range, under 2 km, I guess. But I didn't play a lot with AGMs.

As for air-to-air AI engagements, the workable scenarios so far: Su-25 vs various targets, Mi-24 vs Su-25 and Su-24, F-16 block 52 vs various targets (AIM-9 and AIM-120 work, not sure about AIM-7), MiG-25R and F-14 vs targets at close range. I saw F-5 and Su-15T shooting their missiles but didn't see the hits.

But back to the topic.
In another mission, my F-16 AI wingman can kill ground stationary targets with AGM-65F. So, AI can do it.
I'll try to redo my antishipping mission with different launch altitudes and object placement.

[Seb]

So far, I observed this positive result of AGM vs ships by AI: Kh-29L by MiG-29K against stationary ships in the river and in the reservoir. Launched from an altitude below 1000 m and from a rather short range, under 2 km, I guess. But I didn't play a lot with AGMs.

As for air-to-air AI engagements, the workable scenarios so far: Su-25 vs various targets, Mi-24 vs Su-25 and Su-24, F-16 block 52 vs various targets (AIM-9 and AIM-120 work, not sure about AIM-7), MiG-25R and F-14 vs targets at close range.

Sorry, I have a question because I don't know if I understood correctly, are there MiG-29K and MiG-25R in our game?

[Dimlee]

Sorry, Seb.
It was MiG-27K.
Yes, there is MiG-25R with a decent selection of loadouts. (Su-24 is green with envy!).

[Dimlee]

Some progress.

The initial map where the issue was discovered was Zakavkazye_III (Transcaucasus)

I tested the same aircraft/weapons on the Black Sea map...
It works! Once the GAttack is assigned, AI F-16s launch their AGM-65Fs and hit the ships. Even better, if there is a convoy of several ships, AI attacks not only the vessel under the GAttack but all vessels in the convoy. And even better, if there are missiles (and bombs) left, AI attacks AAA installations on the coast (about 1 km away from the main objective).
Cool. I'll sleep better. 





Next step: to find out why the same weapon doesn't work on another map in the Caspian Sea... Ancient Persian magic? 

[Dimlee]

I found the reason and it was not the map. My apologies to the creator of the wonderful Transcaucasus III map and to the ancient Persians.

AI F-16 will launch AGM-65F and hit the ship if...there is another type of ordnance in the F-16's loadout.
Go figure!
I used this set: 4xAGM65F+4xGBU12.

Remarks.
1. It works almost perfectly if AI is not your flight (you are not the leader). AI launches missiles and then drops bombs, - sometimes with amazing accuracy. But your own wingmen can "disagree" with you and start launching the missiles too early or drop the bombs and "forget" the missiles, etc.
2. AI can decide to attack other enemy ships or "ship objects" if those are located before the main objective. In my mission, AI attacked sea mines with Mavericks...
3. Attacks from the port/starboard of the ship are usually more effective than from the bow/stern. That makes sense, I think. Like that:


Trivia.
I like the following picture. AGM goes to the vessel's part with the highest temperature - where the exhausts of the engine room are. I don't know if it's by design or just a coincidence but it's rather realistic for the IR seeker, isn't it?



Case closed. 

All the above is about F-16 block 52 with AGM-65F. I did not test other aircraft with other air-to-ground missiles.