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[tomoose]

I'm probably stating the obvious but....

For those of you who like bombers (or long navigation type missions) and/or are vets of the "B17 The Mighty Eighth" game (now in Redux with updated crew graphics among other things).  As you know, the navigator is essentially the guy who tells the pilot when to turn etc and where they are.

For the last couple of our bomber missions I tried a gimmick with the Trigger 'message' object to simulate the navigator doing his job.  In FMB I would place Triggers along the flight plan to provide pop-up messages at the appropriate times.  For example:

When approaching a turn waypoint if the plane passes through the Trigger then a message appears on-screen  "Navigator to Pilot.  Turn coming up"
At the waypoint another trigger  "Navigator to Pilot.  Turn left to xxx degrees"

This took a bit of pressure off me as the lead pilot having to constantly check the map and play navigator at the same time as flying my plane.   It is a bit artificial in that it's not a voice that says it unfortunately (wouldn't that be nice) but a quick text on the screen.  If you see the message then obviously you've passed through a trigger and you are on-course.  If you DON'T see the message then you either haven't hit the Trigger yet or you are waaaay off-course and missed it.  Depending on the size you make the Trigger circumference you can make navigation quite difficult or easy.

Granted it's a simple little thing but we used it on our coop missions and it worked like a charm.  You can obviously make the message as detailed as you like and remain on the screen for a few seconds or remain for longer, plus throw in the odd 'observational' message en route such as "That's the city of Nijmegen down there". 
I know the C&C objects provide some navigation assistance with the Navigator object but that just reports the map grid you 'might' be in (accuracy is weather dependent).  The Trigger message allows a bit of customization and creativity.

Just tossing it out there for those that might not have thought about it.  Hope it helps.
Cheers,
Tomoose

[WxTech]

If one uses the C&C flak barrage object (which is placed where desired and the bursts occur around whatever the player's altitude happens to be and when the player is within a threshold distance), a trigger could be strategically placed so that a flak warning can be issued.

This can serve also as an indicator of being off course. If the flight path is set to avoid flak hotbeds, getting close enough to trigger a barrage can indicate one has strayed, and whether to port or starboard. Particularly useful when wind speed/direction is a meaningful factor.

[genXgamer]

Just a shame we don't have selectable audio messages available as a trigger option.
Obviously it can be done, just needs someone with coding nous.

[tomoose]

WxTech;
I've actually done as you suggested the problem I've found with the flak barrage is that it's 1km x 1km and it itself can be triggered from quite far away even from the side due to a circular trigger zone (I think).  A flak barrage off to the side will initiate if the zone is touched so I have had flak barrages sometimes kick in way off to the side so to speak and they're essentially firing at nothing.

That said I use the C&C flak barrage object extensively (if you look at the mission photos here you'll see plenty of flak  https://381st.nfshost.com/page5.html  ).  I find it provides much more realistic flak with the only drawback being the lack of sound but injecting a couple of 88s helps.

GenXgamer:  yup, a bridge too far I think but would certainly make the Trigger Message object a whole new immersion tool if it could be done.

[WxTech]

Moose,
That's quite a photo album you've compiled.

The activation distance for the C&C flak barrage can easily be altered. As you may know, this and a couple other C&C effects have been worked over by me last year.

I should be able to make the activation distance dependent on the player's altitude. As your altitude decreases, you have to be nearer to the object to get the flak going.

I could also have the dispersion in height increase with height. At ever increasing player altitude, the range in height for the bursts could be made to increase, reflecting greater uncertainty in ranging.

I could also have the aerial coverage vary with altitude. At greater height the horizontal field of coverage could be increased. Perhaps as part of that a greater frequency of bursts could attend the larger areal coverage, to more or less maintain density of the pattern.

Thoughts?

[WxTech]

I just looked over my code changes, to refresh my memory, and see that I reduced the activation distance from 10km to 5. Are you using my mod or the original version?

[tomoose]

Yup, the 'album' has taken close to a year LOL.  As we flew missions each week (so at least 25 weeks) I would take snapshots then 'age' them and post them.  Track recording was usually switched on for the bomb run so I could get the sight shot as well as the BDA shot.  One thing I noticed over the course of the campaign was the inconsistency of the craters showing up.  You can see them stand out in some of the BDA photos whereas in others...nothing.  Weird.

Ref the C&C flak object it's the original.  May I ask for the link to your modded version please?
cheers,
Tomoose

[WxTech]

I'm re-working the flak object, and will soon release an update...

I discovered that the triggering distance (in the original code, and hence my altered version) is line of sight (LOS). The object when placed on a map lies always at the surface. The original trigger distance was 10,000m. And so if the plane was more than 10,000m higher than the object, the flak bursts would not be triggered. For plane heights less than the trigger distance, the horizontal distance component (along the ground) would progressively get larger; when the plane is near ground level the trigger distance in the horizontal is the full 10km.

I'm now going to calculate based on the horizontal distance component, so that the trigger distance is at least consistent in terms separation between the object and the point on the ground directly below the plane.

I'm experimenting with my other ideas, namely varying the horizontal areal coverage, height range and frequency of bursts as a function of the difference in height between object (on the ground) and plane. For higher flights, the flak box will be larger than 1x1km, will occupy a bit larger range in height, and have the bursts pop off more frequently. We'll see what I feel is worth retaining after some assessment. I'll want to be watchful of the number of bursts.

[Highlandman]

Oookay, guys. But, what about the one other thing: IF I remember right, in DBW, you can hear, when enemy/somebody fly/flyes near of you, and I like that feature. Trains, tanks, ships, you can hear too, inside the cockpit. So why, it is not like that, in BAT? Or, can I maby change it/something example in conf.ini? And, in UP3, I like very much that "rearm/refuel/repair" option at tab, to do at homebase, so is it perhaps possible to add that option, to BAT too...? Maby possible/good too, if you can do those maintenance/services, at all your friendly bases/airfield...?

[Dimlee]

Oookay, guys. But, what about the one other thing: IF I remember right, in DBW, you can hear, when enemy/somebody fly/flyes near of you, and I like that feature. Trains, tanks, ships, you can hear too, inside the cockpit. So why, it is not like that, in BAT? Or, can I maby change it/something example in conf.ini? And, in UP3, I like very much that "rearm/refuel/repair" option at tab, to do at homebase, so is it perhaps possible to add that option, to BAT too...? Maby possible/good too, if you can do those maintenance/services, at all your friendly bases/airfield...?

External sounds... It depends on the loudness - of your engine and external sources. Fly near B-36 in 20 m or so and you'll hear her. I'm not sure about the ground vehicles. But how realistic is it - unless you fly low and slow with an open cockpit?

As for the RRR: probably, you can create a dogfight mission and play it in multiplayer and hit refly - as a substitute.
Otherwise, there was a mod PAL Visual Mod9 with RRR feature. It is not supported in the last BAT versions, however.
Also: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,71395.msg777943.html#msg777943

[Highlandman]

OK, thank you, Dimlee, for your advices! Still, I think that UP3 way of rearm/refuel/repair, is the best way/solution, to do those things And, buy the way, one other same kind thing/my wanted utility/ground crew help: Would be nice and great, if, when you have managed/done, enough good crash landing, by damaged plane, in your own homebase area, and you survive, alive, then... It would be sooo great and nice, if/when there comes your own land-crew, to pick you by truck/car, and then give you the ride, to your homebase airfield, and... You can start continue, your mission, with new plane! Atleast I think, that would be very good fun feature in the game! If I could, I will make that feature, by myself. It could be done, by very "light" simple graphics. And, maby in the radio tab, to call that land-crew help, to come and get?

[Dimlee]

Yes, the assistance of a ground crew and a cold beer... 
By the way, we can simulate such assistance by riding the ground vehicle between the bases. If the vehicle is included in the departing home base's aircraft list and if the terrain allows that. This is not exactly what you wish but driving the Jeep or Kubelwagen can be fun. Especially, under the threat of the strafing by the enemy. And such a ride (coming back to the topic) can be made less dull by using the trigger messages.