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[TXZCJSP]

https://www.aahs-online.org/resources/navy_sac.php
https://www.aahs-online.org/images/Navy_SAC/F6F-3.pdf
https://www.aahs-online.org/images/Navy_SAC/F6F-5E.pdf
https://www.aahs-online.org/images/Navy_SAC/F4U-1.pdf
https://www.aahs-online.org/images/Navy_SAC/F4U-1D.pdf
Here's the URL of the SAC record

The F6F speed in the game is so low that it can even be caught up by the A6M5
Is it possible to recheck the data for the Pacific Fighter?

[TXZCJSP]

I am here to follow this post with some sources that proves the F6F-5 can do 340+mph at sea level.

The source F6F-5E ACP proves that F6F-5 can do 343mph at sea level with bomb and radar racks, and 347/389mph at sea level/ACA for clean condition.






In July 1944 F6F-5N ACP chart, it showed 340mph/391mph at sea level and ACA respectively.






In FAA manual, the Hellcat MK.II showed 340mph at 1500ft. Considering the neutral stage of the Hellcat's supercharger, the brake horsepower would only increase to 2250hp for altitude under 1500ft, i.e. the sea level for Hellcat MK.II would be at least over 340mph, and it also fits the F6F5E ACP chart.



In ww2aircraft forum, there's a whole post about the performance calculation.


However, compare them to the F6F5 performance in the game, we see a huge gap between the game and the historical data:



The Hellcat's performance is clearly underpowered, with WEP it can barely do over 500kph, and with military power, only 440kph at sea level. Its speed at low blower stage is obviously too slow, and the chart also shows an unrealistic gap between military power and combat power. In realistic, the military power generates 2000hp at sea level, above ACA, the military power would also generate a top speed around 380mph.

Thus I would like to see the performance of F6F-3 and -5 be remodelled in the future.

[raf1659]

Also the F4U is unrealistic slow 

[Esv_Pato]

And 25 years later the same discussions asking someone to fix the flight model......it's nice to be home.

[taly01]

The performance charts.......depend on game version etc etc and are calculated not in game tests.

In the actual game 4.13.4 stock the F6F-5 using WEP......
top speed 607kph @ 5670m
climbs to 3048m in 3:18

I don't have the A6M5 test paper easy to hand but all the A6M5's do around ~525kph @ 6000m stock 4.13.4

[SAS~Storebror]

There's a fair bit of cherry-picking going on here. 99% of all reports about the F6F (both -3 and -5) document a top speed at sea level of 310 to 320 mph. This includes the sources listed here. If you cherry-pick just the most extreme report (in this case, the F6F-5E) and take the most extreme values from that, and then spice it up with some steep claims ("speed continues to increase below 1500ft"), the imagination knows no bounds.

But, let's be real: that leads nowhere. If someone desperately wants to turn the Hellcat into a supersonic rocket, all the tools to do so are right here. No one's stopping anyone. However, if fundamental changes are desired, and someone else is expected to carry them out, it helps to stay a bit more grounded.

310 mph is 500 km/h, and for instance, we're just about 10 km/h away from that in Ultrapack. So, it fits quite well.


Mike

[Irregular23]

There's a fair bit of cherry-picking going on here. 99% of all reports about the F6F (both -3 and -5) document a top speed at sea level of 310 to 320 mph. This includes the sources listed here. If you cherry-pick just the most extreme report (in this case, the F6F-5E) and take the most extreme values from that, and then spice it up with some steep claims ("speed continues to increase below 1500ft"), the imagination

Hi,

Here we see 3 reports indicating that F6F5 is a 340 mph level fighter at sea level. While in your old discussion, which sourced from wwiiaircraftperformance site, there are only 2 reports about F6F5’s performance, both reports were periodic check for F6F5 in service condition. In the first report, F6F5 number 58310 was running with single pylon, and with carberator malfunctioning, causing it to generate only 1850hp at sea level using MILITARY power. Despite this it achieved 320mph at sea level, with a loss of 300hp compared to WEP at that altitude. The second report, the F6F5 No.72731, was running with two pylons, and rocket launchers, running 1900hp MILITARY power at sea level,achieved 310mph. Thus “310-320mph” only reflects F6F running at MIL 52.5’’ with pylons and malfunctions. Thus reports in this thread reflect the combat condition for F6F5 using WEP.

Other reports about F6F3 were running at military power, i.e. 52.5in manifold pressure, only one report recorded the use of water injection, achieving 330mph at sea level at low blower( loss of horsepower below 1500ft).

Whatsmore, the MIL power in history generates 510kph at SL, while only 440 in game. That’s a huge mistake.

I hope this clears your concerns.

[SAS~Storebror]

Here we see 3 reports indicating that F6F5 is a 340 mph level fighter at sea level.

No sir.
We see the same report 3 times, indicating that a certain F6F-5E somehow achieved 340mph at sea level apparently.
From the same source we get a report for the F6F-5 (not E) that states a top speed at sea level of 276kts, which is 318mph. Combat power. Combat config.

While in your old discussion, which sourced from wwiiaircraftperformance site, there are only 2 reports about F6F5’s performance, both reports were periodic check for F6F5 in service condition. In the first report, F6F5 number 58310 was running with single pylon, and with carberator malfunctioning, causing it to generate only 1850hp at sea level using MILITARY power.

Not sure where you got this from.
My understanding is that they grabbed a plane which had an auto mixture malfunction in the high blower.
Not relevant for SL topspeed at all.


Mike

[Irregular23]

Mike

If I remember it correctly, the F6F5 SAC in 1945 was for variants with 2 20mm and 4 50cals, with T-bracing and pylons. and the figure seems suspicious, since it conincide with the F6F3 figure 611kph at ACA. We already knew that an F6F3 can do 320mph at MILITARY rating at SL according to multiple sources in wwiiacperformance. Considering the refinement of the F6F5 aerodynamic shapes(new cowlings), and the introduction of water injection, it is clear that F6F5 would be faster. Which is supported by the other two sources you saw, F6F5 using malfunctioned MIL rating, carrying pylons, achieved the same speed in the SAC. Further inspecting that SAC chart, the SL speed was obtained from 2030hp rating instead of standard 2250hp at neutral stage, which indicates that either the plane was flown with low blower at sea level, or the sea level data was extrapolated from the performance curve at higher altitude using low blower stage supercharger. Which was the common methodology during F6F-3 period tests, it further increased its suspicion as an F6F-3 data instead of -5.

Plus the SAC documents provides less information, and been less trustworthy (take for example, the F8F SAC vs ACP charts) than the ACP files. We already have 2 ACP files that supports our argument, with 1 extra FAA manual, 2 periodic check reports, and other F6F3 reports. 5 to 1, Now the SAC you have mentioned, becomes an outlier ,or extreme data.

Hopefully it clears your concerns.

[Irregular23]

While in your old discussion, which sourced from wwiiaircraftperformance site, there are only 2 reports about F6F5’s performance, both reports were periodic check for F6F5 in service condition. In the first report, F6F5 number 58310 was running with single pylon, and with carberator malfunctioning, causing it to generate only 1850hp at sea level using MILITARY power.

Not sure where you got this from.
My understanding is that they grabbed a plane which had an auto mixture malfunction in the high blower.
Not relevant for SL topspeed at all.


Mike

The carburetor malfunction was encountered at neutral stage, which seriously reduced the power below 2000ft to SL, you can read the report from that site, since I can’t reply links. Thus the malfunction had reduced the SL speed for F6F No.58310, but with little effect on its high blower stage, thus it achieved 395mph at 19k ft.

[SAS~Storebror]

You seem to have a lot of suspicions and make frequent use of "would" and "suspect". You're referring to reports that aren't linked in this thread and quoting texts from memory rather than posting them here.

If you’re so convinced that the F6F is as slow as a snail on a lazy Sunday, why not speed it up yourself? Honestly, no one's stopping you.

However, if you wish others to hop on your bandwagon and do the legwork on your behalf, the least I’d expect is a systematic, unbiased, and fully transparent approach. This means making all sources directly accessible, transcribing relevant text passages as they are, and avoiding any assumptions beyond the documented performance figures.

Thanks for your understanding.


Mike

[Irregular23]

Hi Storebror,

“Suspect” was used to explain your outlier, but my argument is clear, that all three documents support that F6F-5 can do 340+mph at sea level. Other sources you may have saw or show interests, I couldn’t insert images or external links in previous replies due to new user restrictions, but I believe whoever interested in digging out the real Hellcat performance knows what I was talking about.

By the way, this post originates from my discussion with my friend( the guy who prematurely created the thread). We’d like to see the reaction from the community about making the Pacific Theater more realistic.

Regards